Sunday, October 12, 2008

A Call for Prayers

I am not sure just how many people are aware of what is going
on in California right now.
I just wanted to do my part in getting the word out.
I grew up in Huntington Beach, CA A really great place to grow up.
I no longer live in California, but it still feels like a huge part of my life.
Most all my family still lives there.
In the year of 2000 Californians passed a proposition which defined
marriage as between a man and a woman only. This proposition
was recently overturned by the CA supreme court, by a vote of 4-3.
Now there is another opportunity for Californians.
This time they are trying to pass an amendment to the
CA state constitution. Again recognizing marriage
between a man and a woman only.
This is a close race, with huge amounts of money
being donated by "Hollywood people". Some of the issues that
the opponents of Prop 8 are trying to sweep under the rug are:
That if this Amendment does not pass then clergy will
be required to "marry" same sex couples.
Even if it goes against their core beliefs. They could
be sent to jail if they do not. They also would have their
non-profit organization status taken away.
Also textbooks would be changed to no longer say,
husband and wife, or mother and father, instead they would read
home community, life partners, and or companions.
Right along with this children would be taught a new version of
health, and or sex ed. Including same sex attraction.
As a parent this scares me on so many levels. I want my children to have
a foundation of good wholesome beliefs. I want to choose what they
are taught. I for one do not think they need to learn about
this lifestyle at such a young tender age.
I was reading my scriptures this morning and the following
verses seemed to really make it clear how God feels about this lifestyle.
Leviticus 18:22
Isiah 3:9 (very poignant)
Romans 1:27
1 Corinthians 6:9
Now I have a request for anyone
reading this. Please pray for the Californians. Please pray that
they will be righteous in their choice. Please pray that those who are
undecided will be swayed in the direction most pleasing to God.
Deuteronomy 6: 13-15
Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God, and serve him, and shalt
swear by his name.
Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which
are round about you;
For the Lord thy God is a jealous God among you lest the
anger of the Lord thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee
from off the face of the earth.


My name is Andrea said...

from what i understand, (and i don't completely) but there could possibly be some repercussions on our temples and their ability to marry people...

Cherry's Jubilee said...

Amen Sister! I hope they do the right thing! cherry

Holly said...


Wendy said...

Thanks for visiting my blog and your nice comments.
My sister lives in California, so I've heard about this, and it is scary.

Hoov said...

i always think its best for us to actually read the proposition before listening to the advertisements from either side of the argument. i'm trying to seek a more factual and unbiased source of information on this topic rather than the testimonials of either side. this sounds a little far fetched to me. and if it is this extreme, this particular proposition will never pass. generally, people who vote only accept change in a more gradual fashion.

The MacQueens said...

My sister lives in CA, so I have heard about both sides. What people don't realize are the unintended consequences of such a decision, like you pointed out. The attitude that these "extreme" things
will never happen is very dangerous in my opinion. People thought the economy wouldn't be in the crapper like it is. Here's hoping people do the right thing!

Yes On Prop 8 said...

Hoov, you are correct in saying that this change does sound extreme. The truth is, these changes will probably happen in a more gradual fashion & some of it is speculation, but some of it is not! A perfect example of this change NOT happening gradually is here:

This is an article about a group of FIRST GRADERS being taken on a school sponsored field trip to a lesbian wedding. This article is not an opinion or a speculation about what could happen, this is reporting on what I consider to be an extreme event that has already happened IN THIS STATE.

Betsy said...

I would like to see the sources of the article for the first grade field trip. Where did the article come from? What school sponsored the field trip? What district superintendent allowed that to happen?
Now, I don't personally oppose prop 8, I just think there is too much propaganda out there for people to make a truly educated decision.
Some of the claims are simply not true. It will not have any effect on who can be married in the temples. It cannot have any effect on a church's tax exempt status. That is a federal priviledge, not a state.
I do believe, however, that marriage is between man and woman, ordained from God.
I just don't want people to base their decisions on misleading information.

Hoov said...

ok...i agree "extreme" things will happen in propositions and in proposed bills. i disagree that the extreme consequences described by "yes on Prop 8" and will be the results of this proposition not passing. all i'm saying is, we should examine information from unbiased and factual sources rather than the sources like family members or websites and blogs taking a stand on only one side of the issue. i may disagree with this proposition or i may be in favor of it; either way, i'm going to try and seek out the most informative and factual sources rather than listening to extremes and loaded, dangerously speculative opinions from only one side.

having said that, you can stop reading as i share my personal opinion on the matter if you know we will disagree. my concern with propositions and amendments like these is that we still have a group of people in this country who are discriminated against. this is a country completely founded because of a need for freedom of religion, and yet many of the religions in this country are the first to discriminate. some of these religions wouldn't even exist unless we did have those freedoms in this country, yet they often want to exclude others from freedoms given to them based on their religious beliefs.

i don't agree or disagree with gay marriage because it has nothing to do with me or the way i choose to live my life. i do disagree with government enacting laws that discriminate against it's own law-abiding, tax-paying, citizens on the basis of religion. i also agree that this type of legislative effort is a form of distracting voters from the real issues and acts to polarize the citizens of this country and promote discrimination and intolerance of one side to another.

just a few thoughts on the matter; feel free to disagree. ;)

Yes On Prop 8 said...

Hello everyone, I apologize if I opened up a nasty can of worms. :-) I COMPLETELY understand everyone's point that we need to get the FACTS. It really is tough to do. For example, there are certain claims made by the Protect Marriage website that the No on Prop 8 website says, "No, that's not true! Get the facts here at our site!" How do we know who is right? For me, I always just to try to read as much as I can for both sides & make a decision from there. I also see the value in getting actual citations for events rather than, "Oh I heard that my friend's neighbor's mother adoption agency got sued for not adopting children to a gay couple." And of course watching advertisements doesn't help because they are specifically targeted to influence the viewer in a certain way.

That is why I posted the link to the article about the first-grade trip. True, I did read about the wedding field trip on a pro-Prop8 website, but you can also read about it in the San Francisco Chronicle here:

The wedding took place at San Francisco City Hall, was performed by the mayor, Gavin Newsom, and the marriage was of the class' teacher to her now wife.

I still think it's okay to listen to others' opinions as long as we also get the facts. I have actually been enlightened by listening to some of the viewpoints of those that oppose Prop 8 because they make some good points. It does not change my view, but it still gives me insight & understanding.

Even though there are obviously religious perspectives that influence this decision, it is not solely a religious argument. Society's foundation has been on a family consisting of a mother, father, and children. I realize this does not always occur, but children develop better when they are influenced by distinct natural traits of a mother & a father.

I do agree that this is something that shouldn't even have to be on the ballot, but the reason it is on the ballot after the people voted on it is BECAUSE the judges in San Fransisco overturned it, so now it has to be back on the ballot for the people to vote on to put in the state constitution.

Sarah R. said...

I think that it's great that you're getting the word out. People need to understand the possible ramifications of their votes. It's easy for people to think that their votes don't count (especially when something you've already voted on is overturned). It's also easy to believe that you're the only one who feels a certain way. The majority of the press on this issue is obviously focused on those who support gay marriage. If you're for prop 8, you're basically labelled in intolerant bigot. It's not wrong to stand up and voice your opinion or vote your conscience. That's what America is founded on. That's what makes this country great. Also, if someone has a source for news that is unbiased I would welcome the information. Everyone has an agenda, and I have yet to find a news source that just reports the facts.

Hoov said...

You don't need to seek sources for news. Seek sources of information. These are different things. Of course media is biased. But you can read the actual court decisions and proposition information from the websites of the california supreme court and the CA secretary of state. I just really encourage SEEKING as much information on the proposition as you can before hastily acting. This will require some effort rather than just going along with what others are telling you. There is a lot of dangerous speculation out there about this proposition on both sides of the issue. This will always be a polarizing issue that the nation will never agree on, but it is dangerous to vote prior to being fully informed. Every vote IS that powerful, and too often they are cast without much research into the issue.

I say this sans agenda for either side, honestly. I don't even have a vote on this, as it is not my state. Its just a real pet-peeve of mine when voters do not examine both sides of these polarizing issues, but take rumors and speculation as fact.

bighandsiknowyouretheone said...

Betsy, tax exemption is a matter of both federal and state policy. The Federal government may grant income tax exemption on the federal level. But ultimately the states can tax an organization for property taxes, sales taxes, and also state income tax. Opinions are opinions but state law is fact. this can be found here: 26 U.S.C. § 501(c).

In the state of California if any clergy refuses to legally wed a couple one of two things can happen; their marriage liscence can be revoked or they can lose tax priveleges.

Martin Luther King, Jr.:
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

cm3 said...

The actual marriage of gays and lesbians is almost a non-issue. It has been legal in Massachuesetts since 2004 and less than 21000 people have been married in a state with nearly 6.5 million people. Marriage in CA has been allowed since June and only 22000 people have been married in a state with 36.5 million people.

Traditionally marriage has been between man and woman and the overwhelming majority of citizens of CA and the United States want it that way. If marriage is so important to gays and lesbians, why haven't they bombarded Massachuesetts for marriage licenses? They have had the ability to marry there for over 3 years. This is a typical example of people not wanting something until they are told they can't have it.

Hoov said...

cm3...using your logic, if i'm a single person who doesn't want to get married right now, that means you can take that right away from me? i'm straight but the concept is the same...poor argument.

who are these crazy commenters?

cm3 said... can get married just not to a woman. And the citizens have the right to amend the constitution if they have enough votes which in this case they will.

In this story, the public school claimed the right to teach kids as young as kindergarten about homosexual marriage without regard to the parents wish to at least be notified beforehand. What about a parents rights?

Betsy said...

It was a charter school = not a public school. And everyone one of the 18 kids who attended had a signed permission slip by their parent. There were 2 kids whose parents did not consent and they remained at school. Those parents rights were not trampled on.

eatchocolateandloseweight said...

Having been born and raised and currently living in California I must give my opinion. In 2000 we the people of California voted on this propositon (prop 22) and 61% of the people agreed on banning same sex marriage. Then earlier this year 4 judges in San Franciso overturned the voice of the people and legalized same sex marriage. They had no right to do this and that is not what the majority of the people of this state want. So here we go again except now the stakes are raised even more. This is not about the gay community demanding more rights. They have all those rights as domestic partners. It is about acceptance and being on equal ground as a man and woman marriage--which is ordained of God. If prop 8 does pass and I pray it does it will not take away any of the domestic parnership laws already passed. But it will have enormous ramifications if it does not pass. It will directly affect our school system, the different church leaders, and will lower our societal standards even lower. THe least we can do is try and keep the traditional marriage between a man and a woman as is and not deviate from this. Look at Massachuesetts and Canada and even worse at Europe where gay marriage is allowed and the moral issues challenged there. Kids being taught in kindergarten that gay marriage is okay. Or a clergy in Canada being threatened to lose his clergy status if he does not marry a gay couple even though the church he represents does not condone the practice of same sex marriage. If Prop 8 does not pass this will open the door wide open to many more issues that will challenge our society and our moral beliefs. I pray prop 8 does pass. The gay community will not gain any more rights by being "married"..just more acceptance. I believe though that just as in 2000 when we the people of California passed it we will pass it again and no judges will ever overturn it again.

Yes On Prop 8 said...

Eatchocolateandloseweight, I thought you made some excellent points! Thank you so much for posting!

~ Mary

Trisha said...

The last couple days it has been very enlightening to read all the comments posted. Some good points were made. I just want to respond to a couple of those points. You are right, we should not just blindly follow the media sources opinions, which is why I myself have read the proposistion in full. It's quite simple really. I read it 8 years ago, when it was only a proposistion, I read it again this time. I still feel that it is important to vote yes on prop 8. Also, a charter school is a public school. Not a private school. It is funded with public tax dollars, and there is no tutition charged. I know this because my son attended one. They are required to follow district and state rules/laws like any other public school. You are right though, parents were given the choice to let their children attend the wedding. What about diversity days and other such activities where they do not give us parental notification? What then? What if they teach about same sax marriage/relationships in classrooms? I for one want to choose when my kids learn about alternative lifestyles, and by whom they are taught.

I guess what it really comes down to is simple. I fear my God more then I fear my friends, family, or strangers I meet on the street/internet.

I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I raised my arm and sustained the prophet. I said "yes, I will support you". I take that seriously. I also know that the church has legal council that advises them. I know how deeply they have investigated all sides and senarios of this paticular proposition. So when they take a stand, which is rare, I will side with the church.

Elder Ballerd asked people to use the internet, specifically blogs as a way to spread the word. I thought it was a small enough thing to do. It may seem silly, small, or even mindless, but to me it was a little thing I could do.

I hope and pray that by doing it, maybe someone read and had a change of heart. Or maybe the prayers of people will soften hearts. Either way when I meet my God face to face to be judged I can say "I did my best Lord". And that gives me comfort.

1 Nephi 16:29 small means the Lord can bring about great things.

Hoov said...

I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this topic. I hope I didn't offend or hurt feelings by trying to present an opposing argument. I'm certainly not offended in any way; I welcome opposing views most times...doesn't mean we are going to change our minds, does it. You know me, Trisha... these random people who are commenting on this blog topic do not. I take real comfort in that, knowing that you and I can argue whatever topic we want and at the end of the day, still be family and probably be better for it! ;)

Sara's Memoirs said...

It's simple to me really. Marriage is between one man and one woman. It is ordained of God. If same sex couples would like to commit to one another call it what ever you like... just not marriage. That one is taken.

Further more, same sex couples have all their rights in tact in California! they receive all the tax exempt laws of a legal marriage already! There is no discrimination here, there is just freedom of religion. Which is why people came to America to begin with!

If this law to change marriage happens, we, with freedom of religion LOSE OUR FREEDOM of religion. We will be, by law, unable to practice and preach in our own churches our doctrine from God!

If we are all to keep our freedoms we must NOT have government telling us what marriage means. It already has a definition and who do we think we are to change that!

People have their free agency to live how they choose to live. But they will not change my free agency to live how i choose to live.